Give a little cheers. Cheers. Because Cheers. Cheers. We are here together. Mm-hmm. In the flesh, which is just like so nice because it doesn't always get to happen this way. Right? So many times on these recordings we're like connecting over the Zoom and it's just, it's not the same vibe. I am gonna take a sip and say, hola mis amores!. Welcome to the Inspired Risk Podcast. I am Elizabeth Cordova, and I am truly tickled to be here with my new friend, Mekhai. Mekhai is an award-winning,. Like legitimately, award-winning, South by Southwest attending, actor, director, artist. And today we're gonna talk about what it's like to make a film and to go through the process of like taking something that is so interior and in your mind and then having to translate it and make it something that other people can experience and enjoy and interpret and critique and all of the things. We're also gonna talk about recognizing and owning your moment. Mm-hmm. Because mm-hmm. You have had a moment. You have had a few moments. Moments. Quite a few. Quite a few. Yeah. And so mm-hmm. We're definitely gonna touch on that. Yeah. As well as just like learning how to trust in your creative instincts. Mm-hmm. Especially when it might not make a lot of like, sense to, to people who are, who are not you. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And so. I'm excited. Mekhai. Yes. How are you? I'm good. I'm happy to be here. I like, yeah, I'll take a sip. I'll take a sip. Take a sip. But I'm very happy to be here. I'm super excited to talk to you. Yeah, I'm glad to have you as a new friend, like I think this is awesome. Yeah. Yeah. So Mekhai and I met at a mutual friends' dinner party. Yeah. Mm-hmm. And so. We got to know each other, you know, kind of fast and furious, like over one very long, very fun dinner. Very intimate. Yeah, very intimate dinner for sure. It was, you know, only, I think eight of us, and, and we were sitting pretty close and so got to chat for the whole night. Mm-hmm. Um, just there, there was a little bit of like soul resonance, maybe a little bit of like. Totally, totally. Artists connecting to artists. Yeah. Yeah. And we had a lot of great conversation. And so mm-hmm. I'm glad that you're here and we get to like, expand on that convo for the people. Yeah, yeah. Me too. Um, I wanna just like take a moment to ask actually how you're doing, because looking from the outside in, that's a loaded question. Okay. Um, yeah. The past few weeks have been major. Yeah. Yeah. They have, um. Right now, I feel like I'm still coming out of it. I feel like, uh, it's been, like you said, major, it's been kind of a shell shocking experience, so I'm like returning to life a bit. Yes. There was life before these last few weeks and then there's life sort of after it. Mm-hmm. I've had a lot of experiences that were first time experiences. I've had a lot of, uh, you know, I've met a lot of new people, um, and I've made a lot of new friends and I feel like. Especially beginning this area season, I feel like I'm beginning this new chapter, this new era of my life, and I'm very welcoming towards it. I feel impatient at times, but I also feel like ready and, you know, welcoming and just like open armed to whatever can sort of be whatever can become Um, and hopeful. And hopeful. Very hopeful. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And so if you're not familiar, Mekhai directed, produced? Mm-hmm. Directed and produced. Though not credited, but I learned after the fact, like I am a producer. I didn't know when it was happening. Okay. Alright. So, so now we know, now we know also the producer and director. That's right. Of this beautiful short film mm-hmm. Called "Them That's Not" mm-hmm. And it, it premiered when? In June of last year. Okay. Yeah. And then very recently in March it was screened at South by Southwest. Mm-hmm. And you went to the NAACP awards and you turned 30. Yes. And it was all kind of, just so many things. Yeah. Ba bam, bam, bam, bam. In, in a span of like three weeks too. Yeah. And like I kind of anticipated it. I knew it was coming in a way, the world didn't. Mm-hmm. And I didn't expect the world to even pay attention. But because of the Image Awards, so many people were paying attention. So it's become a thing of like, I'm constantly seeing new chapters, new people, new uh, experiences, new opportunities, like many people are presenting themselves forth to me in, in a way that was not happening two months ago. Interesting. But, but was sort of like on the horizon. Like for example, our dinner party or the night after our dinner party, I went to a birthday party and met a lot of new people and was made aware that people were following what I was doing with my career, but weren't vocalizing that, or, or making that apparent on social media or whatever, which is, sometimes as an artist, what you're paying attention to. Yeah. And in real life it became very apparent, like, oh, these folks are watching what is happening over here. Mm-hmm. And I sort of have a responsibility, but also, no, I have responsibility to two things, to myself, to maintain my integrity, to maintain my vision, but also to the folks who are paying attention. Who, mm-hmm, see stock in me who, who believe in me, who can see that there is potential here. And while that's a lot of pressure, it also motivates me. It makes me sort of feel like I have something to, um, I have something to say and people believe in my voice and my vision. And that's, that's really cool. Yeah. That's really cool. It's interesting that you frame it that way because I feel like a lot of artists don't necessarily have that same perspective where they might take the lens of like, what I am responsible for, mm-hmm, is simply just honoring, like you said, like working in my own integrity. Yeah. And putting out work that's true for me, but not necessarily take that extra bit of responsibility to say No, no. I'm also responsible for the people that are believing in me. Yeah. Yeah. And so where do you think that comes from? Because certainly not everybody feels that way. Well, I'm glad you said that. That's not, because that's something that my father sort of instilled in me. Mm-hmm. Not to get like crazy deep. No, please. But like, yeah. Yeah. But like, it was something he said to me when, and it made me realize that I'm not doing this for myself. I'm doing this for the people who love me and who believe in me. Mm-hmm. And because that sort of was, uh, you know, like exercised or like crystallized very early on for me. When I meet people who also express that same sentiment who are not in my family, then it becomes much more of a responsibility. And I take them on as sort of community and I'm like, oh, here's someone else who sees what I'm capable of and vice versa I see what they're capable of. So it's my responsibility to maintain accountability and, and show them by example what I can do and what conversely they can also create or cocreate, you know? Yeah. So it makes me excited to see what is possible for the future, for what our artistry can sort of like, um, cultivate, um, and it not to talk about Michael B. Jordan ad nauseum, but I, No, please. I mean, when he won, really felt it. I felt it. Yeah. It was something visceral. Mm-hmm. And he also wanted the image award, so I was present for his win there and he said, gives me chills. I was there and I remember seeing him, first of all, on the red carpet and everything, and then, you know, you're passing him. When the cameras aren't rolling, you're next to these people. Yeah. When the cameras are rolling, you feel far away. But when they're, when you're in these like little pockets where they don't allow cameras, they don't allow any press, any media coverage, you're literally getting a drink at the bar with Tyler James Williams and Quinta Brunson and Michael B. Jordan and Ryan Coogler, and you're all ordering drinks together. And you may chat, but you also may have your friends there or whoever you're with. And it was cool to sort of see realness from these people, like, like actual experience, actual like humanity. And then they would go on stage and win awards and you're like, wow, that. And then Michael's last speech when he won like Entertainer of the year or something, um, he said, you're not that far from where we are. You're right here. You're right here. And it became very real in that moment. And then a week later, or sorry, three weeks later, he wins the, the Oscar, you know? And it just was very very grounding. His,. His win was real. His win was connectivity. Mm-hmm. I could see in him when he says, I am responsible for the people who believe in me. I had already been sort of like matriculating with that thought, and then here it was in real time like, oh, this can actually happen, you know? So, yeah. Yeah. That's where my head is at. That's where. That's what comes up for me in these moments. And it's been, um, I feel like I'm in this quiet space in Aries season. I'm feeling like I'm, uh, sort of preparing for the next part of my life. Mm-hmm. You know, after such a eventful pisc season, the end of a chapter that showed me what my next, my next, uh, life will look like. My next, um era will look like. Mm-hmm. And so now I'm sort of like, in this, in this period of, alright, well get yourself ready for that. Hmm. And that's where I've been with April starting and Aries season starting and, yeah, it's beginning. It's beginning. It's beginning. Yeah. Yeah. The gestation, like Yeah. Start, it starts all over again. It starts all over again. It's a new year. Mm-hmm. Yeah, you sort of have to breathe into it. 'cause it is scary for sure. Yes. Even as I was coming here, I was like, you know, a year or two ago I would've been really nervous to do a podcast interview. I would've been just been like in my head about it. But I was walking here and I was like, you just did like a fucking red carpet. And if you can do that and be well received, and if you could do south by and people well received, then this is someone who you've already connected with. This is someone you've already made friends with. So just take their pressure off of it and like walk in there as yourself, you know? But like years ago, like not even years ago, maybe a year ago mm-hmm. I'd have been like, what do I do? What do I say? How do I be myself? Mm-hmm. You know? Mm-hmm. And truthfully, returning to self and breathing through it. That's why I'm grateful for the meditation, because like letting everything else go and just showing up as yourself is so enough. It's just enough. It really is. It really is. So. I'm like, I hope that you got that. I hope that everybody is receiving that because I forgot y'all are here. Hi. I forgot you guys. I'm just talking to Liza right now. I'm just chatting with her, but like Yeah, totally. Yeah. But, but that's it. Yeah. Being yourself is enough. Yeah. Yeah. And there's so many things that started sort of like bubbling up as you were talking about this response that you had to Michael B. Jordan. Mm-hmm. And to just being in proximity. Mm-hmm. Because I feel like there truly is magic. And like some like osmosis? Yes. A little bit in exchange of energy of the bio osmosis that gets to happen when you're like in the room with people. Mm-hmm. Who are going in the direction and who are at the place where you envision yourself. Yeah. And I'm like, yeah, I'm half Mexican and I'm white. And so I see this, I'm learning that now. Yeah. I didn't even know that. That's cool. Yeah. I see this from that, from the outside looking in. Mm-hmm. But I'm like, the Black community does this so well. Mm-hmm. I'm like, you guys really take care of each other in a way that like white communities don't always, but I agree. Fair. I fair. Fair. I hear your point. And I see from an external perspective for sure, you might see it that way. Yeah. Um, I wish that it would happen more often. Okay. But I think we are making strides, you know? Um. Capitalistic tendency and Yeah. Yeah. It gets us all. It gets us all. We're all, we're all under this umbrella in the United States having to make it work. Yeah. We have to sort of work or, or, or, um. Um, thrive in a system that wasn't built for us. Yeah. Everyone, not just Black people. Yeah. Uh, so sometimes that double doubles back on itself. Hmm. And Black people aren't always here for Black people. Mm-hmm. But I'm grateful when you see Black people working in spite of that, making themselves present for other people of their community. Yeah. And that inspires me. Yeah. That inspires me greatly. And that's what I want to do. So I completely. Agree with you and see your point. And as an external viewer of osmosis, of that connection of seeing someone like Ryan Coler or NBJ, when it, Ryan Cougar's one is really, really, uh, uh, really connection. I feel that it's like visceral. It is, it is. I feel like in my soul, like in my gut. Mm-hmm. But Michael's was. It's different in a way, because we've watched Michael before he got involved with Ryan. Yeah. You know, he's been around and he was sort of this George Clooney type where it was just like, yeah, you're pretty, you do the thing and then you're not an actor, but you're a movie star. Mm-hmm. Everyone knows you, or you're a television star and everyone wants to sleep with you or has an attraction to you like you're Michael B. Jordan. But it never felt like there was that crossover threshold where he could actually be taken seriously. Mm. And Sinners. Has woken up so many different markets in a way that people were not anticipatory of, and it's really happened in a very like unconventional and almost impossible way. It's like, whoa, these folks are here to say something and they want to make art and be serious contenders in a way that everyone else has been taken seriously. Yeah, Michael's win and Autumn's win are just unexpected shifts in the, in the, in the, uh, atmosphere. Mm-hmm. It's, it's really shifted how we look at the entire industry. Look at the entire world. It's. Our world is different. I saw Cats last night, which is, uh, which is for folks who aren't in New York, there's a ballroom production of Cats happening right now. And, um, I saw it last night. I second acted it because I was out at the top of it. And then my friend was like, do you wanna come see it? And I was like, okay, I won't get there on time. They were like, that's okay. Just get here during admission. We'll go, we'll go for act two. And um, I thought I would hate it. Fair thought it wouldn't be for me. Yeah. I love ballroom. Sure. I love, I love, uh, queer expression. I love that. Mm-hmm. But I didn't think, yeah. So wait, when you say ballroom mm-hmm. Explain to the people who might be envisioning like ballroom is. Yeah. Ballroom is, I, I don't know. It's like, just freedom of expression. Think "Paris is Burning". Think, think all the things like it's freedom of expression. And I knew I would, uh, like that aspect of it. I didn't know if it would make sense in the context of the show. I was. Like severely proven wrong. Mm-hmm. It makes so much sense in the show. It makes so much sense. And like Cats is so like flamboyant. It is. It is. But it also is terrible. Sure. Like, yeah. Cats is just not a fun show to watch. You know? It's like you have to love Cats. To love Cats. Okay. Otherwise you're just like sitting there and checking your watch, waiting for it to be over. And the cool thing about it is that all the Cats heads, they're gonna come for you. They are. Yeah. Come, come. I'm ready for it. But no, genuinely like, genuinely like watching it in a ballroom context. Mm-hmm. For folks who are in that community and for folks who've just seen Paris is Burning, like there's a realness quality to it. There's a hu human quality to it that this production really wakes up and evokes and we can like relax into that and see ourselves in these characters. Cats no longer is the animal. It becomes categories 'cause they're just sort of. Showcasing who they are and what they can exist as. Interesting. Yeah. Yeah. I see it. It's like an abbreviation of mm-hmm. The word category, because that's how Ballroom operates. Yes. By category, Uhhuh. And then they can all come forward. And I'm the theater cat. I'm the train cat. I'm the, the dancer cat. I am, I have a twin, like that's their category. And they just walk the runway. They sing their song. Mm-hmm. And it is the score. Yeah. But they wake it up in a different way. And I bring it up because, oh, I might have forgotten what I brought it up. But no, I, I bring it up because there was a real human aspect to it. Mm-hmm. And there were people, I was connect. This is why there were people I was connecting to In the audience. In the audience that would have never looked to their writings have spoken to me. Okay. At the start of the show, it was very much playbill Uhhuh. I'm speaking to the people I'm with. Yeah. Like every other Broadway show. Yeah. I've been to many. And you will sit in the audience, you'll read your playbook, you'll talk to who you came with. You may talk to someone else, but they might be eclectic, they might be a little different, but you never usually speak to the waspy sort of type who has the season tickets to this theater or whatever. And during an intermission, those waspy types were finding Black people, finding queer people, finding anyone outside of the spectrum, you know? Mm-hmm. I, I personally am a Black person, of course, but like there was, they were also finding like drag queens and, and trans folks, and. Asking them, what did you think? 'cause I love it. Okay. They're the philosophy folks are like, I am enjoying this. Is this, is this okay to enjoy? Yes. You know? Sure. And it would, it was really, really insightful because finally someone in the show said that they don't see them as, as drug dealers. They don't see them as sex beings. They don't see them as HIV survivors. They see them as human. Hmm. Finally, the show woke up a humanity to. To trans folks, to queer folks, to ballroom counterparts that wasn't existing before. Yeah. They felt like the traditional sort of Absolutely not expression of Cats. Correct. Yeah. Yeah. And well, even the expression of just queer people in general, like they felt like a subset of what we exist as in the mainstream culture. Yeah. They were like, oh, this is just a facet of American culture. And now here you can see American culture. This facet you've seen as a sort of like bypassing, like non-existent factor. Mm-hmm. Is actually just as real as you. Yeah. That show woke it up in a way, and you're talking to people and you're sharing fans and people are talking. It is really crazy while the show is happening, which in other Broadway shows, talking is prohibited. Yeah. Silence. Yeah. But during the show, people are whispering to each other and you're connecting with people you would've never spoken to. You're just talking to them. Yeah. And they're sharing your, their fans and playbills and people are just like converging. Hmm. And then you're walking out in the theater and you'll never see this person again. It's a New York moment. But you really did have a moment with them. You shared this experience with them. Yes. That's that's beautiful. That's And that's what art can do. Yeah. That's what Sinners has done. That's what Cats is doing. And. That's what I wanna do. So, mm. Yeah. It's really a beautiful thing. It is a beautiful thing. And it's, it's, um, I mean it's one of the things that I think bonded us initially was thinking about we were, 'cause we were talking about the Oscars. It was before it, the Oscars had happened that we were chatting and we were both kind of, um gushing, or I was gushing, I'll say. Yeah. Yeah. Over my experience at Hamnet, because I went to see Hamnet. Yeah. And I had no idea what the movie was about. Mm-hmm. I did not look up anything. I literally thought it was a love story. Right. Um mm-hmm. Between the two main characters. And then it turns out to be this like gut wrench of a movie and it was a, the, I went by myself. It was a theater full of, I would say 80% probably like women. Or women adjacent folks, and everybody was hysterically crying. Mm. Like everybody. Yeah. And I remember thinking about when was the last time I had this type of communal experience with strangers? Because so often we might have, uh, you know, I go to ceremonies, I go to, um, I'm a, I'm a meditation teacher, and so I facilitate deep spaces on a pretty frequent basis. Yeah. Yeah. But to just have that experience through a piece of art that somebody created and to, number one, not be expecting it, but number two, to be so moved that you can't restrain yourself in a room of strangers is power. Mm-hmm. There's so much power in that. And I'm curious, when you think about the type of art that you wanna make, like what is it, the emotional journey? That you're interested in taking people on? I think a return to self. Okay. Yeah. I think I want folks to remember that. I just told your husband when we got here, I was listening to nineties hip hop this morning. Right. Specifically, it was Notorious BIG. Right. I don't know why. He just came on my mind. New York baby. Yeah. Truly. But it's also like anytime spiritually I feel like, oh, I should listen to this artist. Their songs, lyrics are stuck in my head. I'll just return to their music. Mm-hmm. That's sort of how it happens. And I was listening to BIG and um, I thought to myself, wow, like juicy specifically, he has a song called Juicy, and he's speaking so specifically to his experience that it becomes universal for a lot of people who are trying to make it out of the mud, trying to make their own way, forged their own paths. Right? Still to this day, it still is an anthem in that way and, uh, it reminded me of what I wanna do artistically because. I think when you make these, uh, specific experiences, for example, someone who was deaf, someone who was queer, someone who is grief or grieving and isolated in that grief. Um, when you make those experiences so specific, they become universal because we all can sort of, uh, metaphorically connect. Yeah. You know. What is your loss of hearing to you? Is this totem that I hold with my family, this, this thing that is lost to time, you know, or this, uh, uh, this language barrier I may experience with my family becomes your, your queer expression. You know, we can all watch this experience and. Find something that is universally true for us. Again, with Cats, like there's this theater cat and people, he like evokes this ghost in the production and it's very theatrical and very dramatic, but I can feel the audience sort of be like, oh, that is the memory of me at my quinceanera or at my, um my wedding or at my, my, my bachelor party with my sisters. You know, like they could remember those experiences, especially those who had passed a threshold of 50 and 60. They were older and they were like, like older folks were crying 'cause they just really connected to that production. Um, so when I think about artistically what I wanna create, it's that specificity of truth. Mm-hmm. And. Because it returns you to yourself. Mm. You know, it makes you realize the universal truths that you've sort of left covered. It un bears that, you know, it's something I learned being an actor initially and then re and then moving or pivoting into creating my own work. I, I feel like people really respond to when you unbe your soul. And I feel like that's my job. That's, it was my job as an actor, and now it's my job as a writer director who can. Sort of evoke that emotion in people, you know, help you realize yourself. Yeah. When you're watching something I've done. So. Yeah. No, it's beautiful. It's, it's also not a thing that comes easily. No. It's not a thing that comes easily. Yeah. I know in my own experience, it took me a really long time to be okay with myself. Yeah. To love myself, to feel happy. Um, I grew up in a really challenging home and environment and my queerness was not okay. Mm-hmm. And I was poor and I was angry. And it's, I, I had a very different, um, not personality, but I did not feel safe to be myself. Yeah. Yeah. And it took a lot of effort. Yeah. To get to this place now. To Yeah. To return to self. To return to self. Yeah. And I am curious about your upbringing or is this something this returned to self? Have you always felt like innately connected to who it is that you are? Or has it also taken, you know, some effort for you? It was, yeah. Yeah. Um, I'm gonna butcher this James Baldwin quote, but it is, you have to sort of get rid of everything you've been taught about yourself to realize who you are. Mm-hmm. You know, and so I, I had been taught I was certain ways and some of those things that I enjoy stuck, but some of those things that were not true of me. I had to work to let go. Mm-hmm. So it, it was never easy. It's my Scorpio Rising. I feel like though, it's like, yeah. Like I'm gonna excavate like all the really gritty parts of myself. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And now. I'm sort of like showcasing them, you know? Yes, yes. Instead, you're gonna perceive me in a very specific way. This, the way that I, that I cultivated, cultivated for sure. I've decided you're gonna be, this is how I'm going to present myself at this moment. 'cause, you know, Scorpios are constantly reinventing. Always, always. Death and rebirth, baby, always. So in two years I might be completely fucking different. In a good way.. My soul might be completely different, like who I resonate with you as might be different. Mm-hmm. And I find that that's often beautiful and often hurtful because sometimes people resonated with me more two years ago. Yeah. I might have really, really deep like close friendships from two years ago, or seven years ago or 15 years ago that now. They are either loving who I've become, they've seen who I've become, and they're like, I am so grateful that you finally see yourself in the way that I've always seen you. Yeah. Or they're like, this is not the version of you that I'm used to. Mm-hmm. And they can't really, they're reversed to it. They can't really connect to it anymore. Yeah. Um, and that's often hurtful. And it was more hurtful five or six years ago. And now I'm like, I understand the nature of myself and I go through peaks and valleys, so folks who stick around for that are my true friends are my true community. Mm-hmm. Folks who can't see the truth of that, then, you know, more power to you. Yeah. I, I, I welcome the season of our life that we've experienced, you know, so, um, yeah. I, I feel like that return to self or that excavating of self is very true to my Scorpio Rising and also very true to the art that I create. You know, it's, it's, it's, it's going to be ugly, but it's always, it's always going to be truthful and, and authentic in what it is, you know? Yeah. So. Yeah. As a Pisces Sun Uhhuh. Yes. Also Pisces Sun and Capricorn Moon. That's right. Yeah. And obviously Scorpio Rising, but I feel like the Pisces Sun and Capricorn Moon is like a very powerhouse duo. Mm-hmm. Because it's sort of this trus trust, infinite trust, hopefully infinite, sort of like connection to infinity and what is possible. Mm. And this like. Your fuel is kind of like always available as a Pisces Sun. It's sort of like this thing that you can always like tap into that is maybe less accessible to, to people with other placements. Do you feel that? I completely feel that. Yeah. And I've never put heard it put that way, but that's so true because again, return to self when I come home, I'm a Capricorn, you know? And so. When I'm creating in that safe space, I'm always looking towards source and it's always, I'm knocking on wood, but it's always readily available. Yes. You know, yes it is, because I can just tap into what makes me feel immediately. Um, but my Capricorn Moon sort of keeps me ambitious and keeps me. Yeah, well, and get, and gets things done. Mm-hmm. And that's why I'm like, it's such a powerhouse combo. Yeah. Because you're like, okay, all the ideas, all the inspiration, all the wisdom mm-hmm that wants to come through. Sometimes that just stays as like this esoteric feeling that people have. Mm-hmm. And they never actualize it. Correct. Yeah. Into anything. Yeah. Never takes forward. Other Pisces I know. Yeah. I'm always like, why am I different from them? And they'll have a Libra Moon or an Aries Moon and mm-hmm. They're feeling it, but they don't do anything with it. Yes. Or a Libra Moon. My God. They'd never do anything with it. They're like the beauty, we floating baby. Correct? Yeah. Correct. And then with me, I'll feel it and I'm like, but we have to turn this into something. We have to actualize this. Yeah. Trans mutate everything we're feeling. Mm-hmm. To what can be effective for the human, the human experience, you know? Yes. Yeah. I think the human experience part is my Pisces speaking up. It's like, oh, you can't just make something for a capitalistic endeavor. For sure. Of course. I like to make money. I like to, you know, be well off. Capricorn Moon. Yes, correct. Yeah. Never gonna lose that. That's fine. I love that. But I also love to make something that is. True to what I'm experiencing and to also what can be true for everyone. Yes. What they're experiencing. Yes. Again, that, that's very specific experience to make universal, uh, cathartic release. You know, that's really where, that's where my artistry lies. That's from artistry, lies for sure. That's beautiful. Will you give the, the listeners and the watchers mm-hmm. Just like a brief synopsis about what your short film is about, because I don't think we've actually said. Oh, yeah, yeah. So, um, them, that's not tells the story of a deaf girl, a deaf college student who returns home to her hearing family and basically reconnects with her estranged father who is on furlough for one day to grieve his his, his mother at their repast. Yeah. So, and I had the, the pleasure Mm. The absolute joy of screening the film So Sweet at and mm-hmm. I'm like, no, it was my favorite. There were other films that were screened to other short films. Well, "Chest Bound" is great, great. And I'm like, I'm not, there's no. There's no judgment. This is my No, I understand. Yeah. One person's silly opinion. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And also, you're already my friend, so I already there was there, yes. There's a little bit of a bias. There's a little bit of bias. Yeah. But, but, but, but, mm-hmm. It was technically so beautiful and impressive. Thank you. But also, it was wild because you give viewers this experience that doesn't happen, I don't think, in other films where you are putting them in the, the lived reality of the protagonist of the story in a very actualized, physicalized way. Mm-hmm. And you play with the sound design and sound editing perhaps? Yeah. Like, are, are those the words? Sound design for sure. Yeah. Sound design. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Um, so that when we are. You know, taking the point of view of the, the protagonist Drea mm-hmm. The, the hearing goes in and out and it's like Yeah. Becomes muffled and becomes challenging and you're like, it, it's very, I don't know, experiential mm-hmm. In a way that I haven't seen done in other films. And so number one, I'm curious, like where did that idea come from? Was it from Source? Did this just like hit you like a lightning bolt one day or? It's comfortable talking to you because that's exactly what it was. Yeah. When people ask me that question, it has to be, yeah, it just, it just struck me. Yes. They're like, well, why? Why deaf characters? Why sound design? And I was like, I don't know. I was grieving. I felt alone in that grief, and I thought. Oh wow. This must feel like what it feels to be deaf in a hearing family. This must feel like what it is to what my experiences of being queer in a heteronormative family. So how do I, how do I actualize this? How do I make this a visceral experience? How do I, how can I do this in this medium and make it true for everyone? Yeah. Yeah. And then you just did, yeah. And then it just, that idea struck me. Yes. It just, it just did. Yeah. It just did. Yeah. And when in any other interviews I try to explain it. No, but as you know and as you understand, it's difficult when it just strikes you. Yes. And I remember calling a friend of mine and saying, wouldn't it be cool if she's like. If we're like watching the film and we can't hear conversations. So the subtitles are question marks because that's what she's seeing. Yes. She's not sure what they're saying. Yes. So we make that experience universal for everyone. Yes. And I remember him being like, fuck you. That's a great idea. He was so mad. He was like, fuck you, that's a great idea. We'll do this hard thing. Yeah. Yeah. He was just like, yeah, that will totally be great. And he was like kind of tight about it, but it's, it's okay. But. Yeah, like I remember being sort of struck. Yeah. It just happened that way. And so I pitched the idea well. Well, it sort of came from, this program is called Sound and Scene, and I'd been struck by a quote, maybe like six months before sound is what turns a crowd into an audience and I sound is what a crowd into an audience. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Yeah, yeah. When you're around a group of people, uhhuh, you know, especially like in the hundreds or two hundreds or whatever. And everyone's sort of just like there. Mm-hmm. You know? If the sound, when you're at a concert, if the sound is fucked, everyone's reacting to that. Mm-hmm. The artist on stage can look wonderful, fantastic. The visuals can be great, but if we can't hear the song, if the sound is in and out, or whenever a mic gets really close to a speaker, we're all reacting to that, you know? But if the music is bumping and we're all really feeling it. We're all there. Mm-hmm. You know, sound is what really connects us, you know? Mm-hmm. It's vibrational. The vibrations. Yeah. More than a visual experience is. Mm-hmm. We just rely on these because that's the first intake mm-hmm. Of our experience. But sound is really what makes the experience universal. Yes. Because we all can feel that. We feel it. Yes. As we hear it, you know? Um, and so that quote really struck me, and then I realized, oh well. Hundreds, thousands of people make short films a year. What can I do with mine that will sort of set it apart? And the first thought I had was remove the sound, because that'll make people pay attention. Mm. When you take the sound away, people will watch and be like, oh, now I have to. Like experience it. Mm-hmm. Because I can't rely and do this, you know? I know the second screen of like, there's no way that you could be on your phone at the same time. Yeah. I'll be doing this. And if you're not hearing anything, and many people have watched the film have been like, oh, I thought my sound wasn't working when it starts. 'cause it starts in silence. And then you like, surprise us. And that's what made me want to, oh wait, let me take it back and actually watch this. 'cause this guy knows, you know, he might be trying something here, you know? Mm-hmm. And. I'm grateful that it worked because I remember thinking, this can really fucking blow up. You know, I can really try something and it just doesn't work, and people are really responding to it. Mm-hmm. So I'm really, really grateful about that. I really am. Yeah. I wanna dig in a little bit to the, like trying something, because I think this is. Such an interesting component of being an artist. Yeah. Yeah. Is having this lightning idea mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And kind of sitting with it and maybe like, yo-yoing a little bit seesaw about like, should I, is it possible? Mm-hmm. Can I, how will I, how will people receive it? Blah, blah, blah. You do this many people, maybe not you. And that's what I kind of wanna know. Mm-hmm. Do this like, back and forth of like, negotiating whether or not it's, it's like wise. Mm. To take this risk because what you're doing is so novel. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. It must, I would assume, feel risky. Yes. Yeah. Um, I have put myself into the practice of taking risks though. Okay. Always like say it to the camera. I have put yourself into the practice of taking risks. Yes, definitely. This is my whole, my whole life. Yeah. I, I always have been that way. Yes. Um, and yeah. And it's always, but you can learn. Yes, you can learn in practice, but it's always, it's always paid off in a really, really fruitful way. Yes. Like leap in the net will appear is how I sort of feel. Yes. You know, so Pisces, but true, true. This is why you're here. Yeah. And to tell the people and, and most of the time in the, in the, uh, sort of pre-production of the risk. Folks will look at me like I'm crazy. Sure. And I'm like, I'm still gonna do it. Even though y'all don't see the vision. I can see what can return to self. Yeah. Return to self. Correct. And I, I can see what can be the potential of this. I can see what can happen. Yeah. And if it doesn't happen exactly that way, I'm grateful that I just went for it. Yes. You know? Yes. Often though it happens. In a different way than I expected, but also exactly how I expected. It's really, it's really crazy because that risk is just waiting for you to kick fear to the curb. Mm. It really is. It really is. So that's where I'm at and it's proved worthwhile in the, in the past, so I'm going to continue to in the future. Amazing. Yeah. And. Your film is Oscar eligible. It is now. It is. Yeah. So we won't say anything one way or another, but we have this awareness, oh my gosh, right? We have this awareness, we have this. Mm-hmm. This, um, you built it with such integrity and you executed it with such integrity that, that, thank you. Thank you. Is an award in and of itself, but also. Like we saw with Ryan Coogler and like we saw with MBJ mm-hmm. The accolades and that kind of spotlight can really make a difference. And so mm-hmm. We're keeping you in our prayers. We're keeping you in our thoughts. We're praying, we're, we're praying. Yeah. It's, it's cool to sort of be in that conversation. Yes. Um, and to sort of be continuing the conversation and at every juncture. So far it's been a yes. It's been like, yeah, y'all can probably go. That far, it can make it there, you know? Mm-hmm. But no one is telling me to be expecting. Sure. But they're saying remain hopeful. Yeah. Because it's one of those that people are really responding to. Yeah. You know, and the awards are coming and, you know, the accolades and the, the, uh, stamp of approval from the right people is sort of happening. Um. And I'm just like, Hey, as long as y'all pay for the next one. That's sort of where I'm at, you know? Great funding, please, please. Yeah, I'd like to continue a career. Yeah. You know, and that's cool that y'all like this one, but I have ideas for future projects. Yeah. So please continue to invest in those. And you know, people are always asking about them and very positively responding to the new ones that I send and. It is sort of beginning a career. And that's what I feel like in this area season. I'm seeing the beginnings of that because a year ago I was still sort of figuring it out. Yeah. You know? And now I'm here, I'm like actually doing it, you know? So That's crazy. It is a really beautiful reminder though, of how much can change. Mm-hmm. And even 12 months when you take yourself seriously. When you take your risks seriously. Yeah. And it's like exponential. What becomes possible. So I just see this like wild upward trajectory that is available to all of us. The wind beneath your wings, you know? Totally. That could really like take you higher. I also feel lucky because I did it right as set a return was ending. So it became like, I'm like, is it luck or is it just like that's how things go? I don't know. You know, I don't, that's sort of where I'm always, yeah. When, when I'm falling asleep. That's what I'm thinking about genuinely. I'm like, is it, am I really lucky? Which could be cool. Yeah. Thank you. But also like, is this a Saturn Return thing? Because. The first two years of my Saturn Return sucked. I, nothing was happening. Mm. No one was saying yes. You know, and I had great ideas and, and this was one of them, or in a different capacity. Yeah. And I shaped this idea for the opportunity. The opportunity that presented itself. Um, yeah. And then this sort of just blossomed and you, you're constantly trying to make something. And then this is the thing that, this is why I met Jibran. 'cause someone asked to screen this film. Mm-hmm. And then. Jibran was also present at that screening. It was just like, dude, we've gotta connect. We've gotta talk. You know? And I've always been this way, not always I've grown. Of course, there's maturation involved, but I've always been who I am at my core, you know? And now people are sort of finally responding to who I've been, you know? And I feel like it's a Saturn Return thing a little bit, because yet I did this right at the end of it. And now. You know, Pisces left. Saturn went to Aries like literally last month. And last month is when everything started to feel like, okay, shit's getting real. Mm-hmm. You know, and it's continuing to get real. And I don't feel scared about it. I don't feel nervous about it. I'm like, bring it on. You know, I'm sort of ready for it, you know? Yes. But not two years ago. Yeah. In the middle of my Saturn Return, I wouldn't have felt on solid ground. And now I feel. I'm on solid ground. I'm ready for it. You know? So be welcoming to your Saturn torn, honestly. Welcome, man. Honestly. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that is the whole thing that Saturn does is it's like if your foundations are not solid mm-hmm. For the life that you wanna have, we're gonna have to do some restructuring. We're gonna have to do some like, yeah. Cementing and breaking down of the things that are, are kind of weak. Yeah. So that you can be grounded and ready and solid for Yeah. The spotlight and the attention and the ideas and the, you know, whatever it is that you want. Whatever's coming. Yeah. And, and I do feel ready for it. Like I really. I, I say this with modesty, but I don't feel shakeable, like I'm genuinely here. Like this is who I am. Mm-hmm. So like, whoever's interested, show me what you're bringing and if I'm interested in return, then, then we can have a conversation. But then if that's sort of not happening, then I'm not, I'm not gonna say yes to that kind of thing, you know? But like, it's sort of been like this constant pressure of folks being interested in wanting to present themselves or putting themselves forth from my attention. And I'm grateful because that was not happening two years ago and now it is happening, but I also feel ready for it. Yeah. Whereas again, two years ago, I would've felt like why there would've been this imposter syndrome. Mm-hmm. And that doesn't really exist anymore, you know? Amazing. It's not that I'm like, uh oh, well it's supposed to happen this way. I just feel like whatever happens, I'm ready for it. Yes. That's the difference, you know? That's really beautiful. I. I felt that breath too. I'm like, yes, yeah, yes. It's a return to south. Whatever happens, I'm ready for. Yeah. I'm like, what a, like, just feel that mm-hmm. For a second because it's, it's a powerful place to be. Yeah. I'm grateful because it, it took a lot of shadow work. It took a lot of. Work in general. It took a lot of failure, you know? Mm-hmm. Is that what the shadow work looked like for you? Just trying and failing or, I think so. Yeah. I think so. I didn't recognize it like that at the time. Mm-hmm. I, I recognized it as, oh, this is gonna be a win. And when it didn't happen, I just pretended that that wasn't a failure. Okay. And now retrospectively I'm sort of like, oh yeah, those were nos. That's right. And you hear all these interviews, they're like, it takes 10 years to be an overnight success. You're gonna hear a lot of nos before you hear your Yes. Whatever. And yeah, those were happening. Mm-hmm. And I was just like, sort of my Pisces brain was being like, no, that's not a no. That's just like a maybe, like they'll say yes in the future and you know, they did it, but someone else did. And someone else did. You know? Yeah. And that sort of yes. Has become something. Mm-hmm. You know, so retrospectively I see it now as like those were also failures and, but those failures aren't something to be ashamed of. I think that's what the fear was. I was like, should I have something to feel shameful about? And now I'm like, oh yeah, nos happen. So I'm more open with them. I'm like, yeah, I got a no. Last week I applied for another grant, but then another grant said, yeah, we're interested. Send something more. You know, so they happen. Yeah, they happen. You know, and that's the seasonal aspects of our lives, you know? So. Yeah. More welcoming towards it now, the wins and the losses. Yes, for sure. It's all, my teacher says it's all grist for the mill. It all gets like that to be something that like gets to be turned into the, the bread, right. That you actually end up making the nose and the s. So, mm-hmm. Whew. Mekhai, I feel like you, you really took us on a spiritual journey. Thank you. Really? Yes. Spiritual is good. Yeah. Spiritual. I felt it. You did. You, you felt it, right? I did. I did feel that felt right. I did. There was some powerful Pisces transmissions coming through. Yeah. That osmosis you were speaking about. Yeah. It's happening. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Um, I wanna end it on maybe with like two light questions. Okay. The first one. What do you love about being queer and Black and living in New York City? Like Freedom. Freedom. Oh my God, I love that. Yeah. Yeah. I love that I can walk down the street and not give a fuck what anyone says about me. Yeah. Or thinks about me. And they're, they're looking, 'cause look at this coat. I have a bright yellow jacket on. They, I know. I'm like, the fashion is something you, you turn a look on the red carpet. What were you like? Tell me about this best. Dress moments. Oh my. Tell me about this. Oh, my dude, that was insane because I just was like, I know if I'm going to this award show, I cannot show up looking crazy. Yes. And so I just wanted explain, explain to the people. So, so I went to the Image Awards and, and I just put a look together. I wore a jacket from Zara styled yourself. I styled myself. I asked for help. No one wanted to help. And so I was like, okay, I'll wear a jacket from Zara. These pants will be, I think they're from Amazon or something. Like I had all these jewelry on, like I just sort of put myself together and did the best I fucking could, and I made it on Vogue's best dressed list. I made it on Essence best, Essence's best dressed list, a few more like some of them I started to lose track because I was just like, all the time. It was crazy. It was happening. It was happening. A lot of them. Um, but Vogue was like the, once I was like, shit, if I made it on Vogue, then that's the one you share. But I didn't expect that. Mm-hmm. I didn't expect that at all. Not at all. I thought I would just, so I was there with like, we were, we were in students, but we were there as like, sort of like new filmmakers venturing into the space. And we went together and we were part of a program, um, sponsored by the NAACP, but we were there with like, it was a good year to go. Yeah. Sinners and. You know, Kiki Palmer was there with her TV show or her podcast rather. Um, and um, like various things, like so many people, like people I would recognize, I did recognize often. So to be in the number with them and to be on the list as them was looking good. Feeling good. Insane. Yeah, insane. I wasn't expecting him, but it's sort of given me a different level of confidence because I have been sort of stepping into. How I express myself with my clothing. Mm-hmm. And then that was a stamp of approval, like, Hey, you're doing something different. But you know, Vogue is paying attention. And I remember when it happened too. I was taking a picture and I walked off the carpet and this guy stopped me and was like, what's your name? And I was just like, oh, I'm Mekhai. And they were like, hi, what? And I was like, okay. Mehkai Lee. First and last. Yeah. They had me spell it out, Uhhuh, and then they were like, well, who are you here with? I'm here with the NAACP, da da da. And they were like, okay, cool. Meet this woman over here. And then I walked over. They were like, did you give your name to him? I was like, yes. They were like, okay, great. We've got you. And I was like, didn't think anything of it. We did the whole award show. Never thought about it again. Those people worked for Vogue and they were just asking for my information so they could list me because they were going through who they liked. You know? Mind you, Vogue has nothing to do with NAACP. No. You know? Yeah. That had nothing. They were just there because it's an award show. It was insane. Oof. Crazy. Yeah. I feel it. I feel it. The y'all It was crazy. Yeah, it was crazy. It's kind of bananas. Yeah. Bananas. Yeah. Okay. Amazing. Yeah. But anyway, the, the freedom of that is sort of where it came from and I was with very straight men. I was with a very, very straight guys who just don't express. Sure. And it just, the freedom I feel being myself. Really just alleviates a lot of pressure. I don't really care what folks are thinking or saying and yeah. Yeah, that's my favorite part about being Black. We are all the things like, that's just who I am, you know? Amazing. That's how I show up in the world, so, and that's what makes you stand out. I think so. It's like, it's literally that. So it's amazing. I think so. It's just like a, a sort of glistening Mm. You know the glow. Yeah. A little bit. Sorry about my radiance. Sorry about my radiance is crazy. I love that. I love that. Uh, okay. Last question. Mm-hmm. What is it that's keeping you, I know, I'm like perfect timing. The drink is done. We fill up again. Yeah. Uh, what is keeping you entertained right now? Hmm. Literature, I think. My heart. Yeah. I'm an eng. I was an English major Oh, cool. In college. Okay, cool. I studied literature in college, so I'm reading this really cool. Uh, so I went to my, uh, apartment basement, found like hella books in the library. No one was touching. They were dusty. I was like, I'm taking these books. It was Raisin in the Sun, which I've read already. Mm. It was Ralph Ellison's Invisible Man. Randomly. It was, uh, Notes of a Native Son, which I've also read already, but I didn't have a copy of. And then there was this book called Serpent and the Rainbow. I'm blanking on the author's name right now, but it's a nonfiction retelling of this ethnobotanist who moves to Haiti to find a, um, basically you heard about this plant that elicits a medicine that basically turns people like into zombies or shut their, shuts their life, bodily systems down. This is kind of a thing. They shut their systems down. So he was like, okay, well I can find this plant turn into a medicine to help with surgeries in western medicine. Um, he gets out there and Haiti was like. This is not something to play with people use. Yeah, no. To like basically get revenge on people in their villages. So he fully experiences this whole thing where people, he starts to dig too deep, so they use it on him and he wakes up in a fucking grave. Haiti basically uses this as a medicine to trick the western medicine within their island that people have died and three days later wake them up with the cure of it and turn them into. Indentured servants. Oh my gosh. It's insane. Yeah. It's an insane non-fiction read. But, um, the Director of Nightmare on Elm Street turned it into a scary movie because essentially they become zombies. Okay. So he is made it this like sort of waking horror. Mm. Um, the film is really campy, but the book is really, really cool. Okay. Really, really cool. And it's written by this Harvard professor. It's his experience and he. F like, like by the skin of his teeth. Like, made it away from this and like, became like this. Like, like, like think of uh uh, Truman Capote In Cold Blood. Mm-hmm. That's sort of how he's written it. Yeah. Damn. Like, like, uh, um, like true crime sort of thing. Yeah. And he's like escaped this world, you know? I, and it's these true stories I found YouTube, like, like actual, like the people he names, I found YouTube articles on them. BBC has done articles on them or like video diaries and things like these people exist, exist. They're real. Wow. And so I, I'm like, kind of like, how can I make a horror film out of this that's really wrong money. I was thinking, I was like, Hmm, is this your next one of your next forays? I would love that. I would love that. Well, loads of money in, in horror films. I would agree. And more. And also experiential, creative. Some, some funding. Yeah. I would love that. Oh my god. Yeah. Experiential, creative, say. Say more. Well, well, just the fact that with horror, horror films, you're seeing, um, more, um, uh, risks taken. You're seeing more experimentation. Yes, for sure. Because it's a, it's a very, um, open playing field right now. Yes. It's like an element of fantasy Yeah. To it. So you can do whatever you want, kind of Anything goes, anything goes. Yeah. Anything goes. So I would, I would try something like this because there's a truth to it. It's also already been made into something really campy, but sort of in the line of Freddie Kruger, and that's not where I'd go. I'd go more like, um, not even the centers, probably more like weapons or something, or like, um, Ari Aster's Midsommar or something like that. Like really fucking, like, fuck up people. It's too scary for me. I love scary movies. I'm glad other people enjoy it. Love, I do love scary movies. Yeah, because my, yeah. Thank you so much, Liza. It's, it's a pleasure. You, it's been a pleasure. Yeah. That was our show for today. People. Yeah. Not to block your face. That was our show for today, people. Yes. Thank you. If you wanna hear more conversations with cool people leading amazing lives mm-hmm. Like, and subscribe to the show anywhere that you listen to podcasts, you can watch us on YouTube and and subscribe on Instagram. I don't know, we'll figure out the outro another day. Totally, totally love. Okay, love you guys.